Third Man Owes Neil Yee from the Gold Dollar $$ (Vault 13)

[NotACollector]

Come on Third Man do the right thing and pay up. $$$$

White Stripes Vault 13 - Gold Dollar
FAQ / Details



Unfortunately there has been a bit of confusion about the White Stripes / Third Man Records / Live at the Gold Dollar Vault 13 release. The aim here is to correct a bit of it, and to answer some questions that have been sent to me recently. The points are numbered, though in no particular order. I'm sure there are typos and incomplete thoughts, but... that's the way it goes!

1) TMR keeps calling this a "soundboard recording" This might sound better for marketing, but... The recording was made to analog multitrack. A soundboard recording is typically a two channel recording of the mix that is sent to the main PA/amp/speakers for the room. The result is usually not so great, as this is not the mix you want for a recording. A multi-track recording like this one uses multiple microphones recorded separately. It can be mixed to something close to perfection, depending on one's idea of perfection... It is malleable like a studio recording. I think they say "soundboard recording" to make it sound more "raw" and "authentic," kind of like using the word "bootleg" when it isn't... but I get ahead of myself!

2) TMR calls it a "bootleg" on their pages and in the Under the Great White Northern Lights film. Bootleg implies that it was recorded without knowledge or perhaps permission, but this was not the case. Many WS shows were recorded with permission and without restriction. The only thing that might make it a bootleg is that TMR did not inform me or ask my permission to use/release my mixes - or permission to use any of my old fliers or graphics! Jack reupholstered a chair for me as payment for mixed copies of these two shows on cassette. These cassettes eventually became the vinyl in question. Funny seeing him act surprised in the film, and calling it a bootleg, since he had requested that I make the recording, and I had given the cassette copy directly to him... But then stretching the facts does make things more interesting - and more marketable. It's been part of the business since the beginning.

3) Did Ben Blackwell record any other shows at the Gold Dollar? Well... In case you haven't figured it out... despite the implication in the film, Ben did not record any shows at the Gold Dollar. Ben's only "involvement" at the Gold Dollar was that we sometimes let him in to shows because he was related to the talent.

4) Does this mean that there are more recordings and/or better quality? YES! TMR announced Vault 13 at the same time as contacting me about maybe buying the masters - already having made the decision to go "cassette to vinyl" rather than remixing. Actually the process was "mlutitrack->minidisc->cassette->vinyl" or maybe "multitrack->VHS Hi-Fi->cassette->vinyl" Apparently these records were made more for collectors value than for sound quality, kind of like a misprinted stamp or a badly minted coin. The multi-tracks exist in analog and digital form, though I think the analogs have deteriorated a bit? While I'm afraid to touch the analog tapes at the moment, digitals sound great. While I like my early mixes (and apparently TMR did too), I do admit that better could be done - by me or by others. I have listened to most of the material that I own, though have made no attempt at full mixdowns for most of it. As it is my mix that was used, it would be nice to see if/how I was credited on these records. I have yet to see them. I was informed that sending me a record was not a high priority?!? Can someone send a scan of the credits for me? (update: as of 22-Oct, they are planning on sending me a copy - though a scan would still be appreciated!)

5) Equipment used in recording/mixdown: Cheap microphones for the most part. It was my live setup. Cheapo Audio Technicas and a Shure SM57 or 58 or two. It's about the music! Board was Fostex 450, tape machine was Tascam 8 channel, outboard was one Alesis Microverb, and maybe a cheap two channel compressor? Or did I get that later? Don't feel like going through all of my (unorganized) notes and photos to figure this one out just yet. Whatever it was, it worked well enough at the time. Early WS shows I used 5-7 channels. Mics were close to all instruments, and I never bothered to set up a room/audience mic, so there is much less of the audience than there should be on a typical live recording. Would be nice to fade in some appreciation every now and then? Ah well...

6) When are the other shows going to be available? People have been asking me this for years, and I wish I had an answer! I am not the one preventing this stuff from getting out! I had the idea of releasing it as free downloads if/when I got around to mixing it - and/or giving away (for free download) the original unmixed masters?!? Hey - mix and master your own White Stripes record! The Gold Dollar was about music, and not about profit! Unfortunately for you, TMR does not like the idea of me giving away free stuff that they want to sell. I do have the right to do what I want with the recordings (again, recorded with permission and without restriction) but don't want to have to go up against the TMR legal team after I do this... That said, I am considering selling the original masters. Hmm.... Any takers? Hmm.... Though I really don't want the hassle of going through thousands of emails... Don't be offended if I don't answer... And if you are interested, please show that you're serious - though I have no idea how one would do that! Make me an offer! I have never before tried to sell these recordings - to TMR or to anyone else...

On a side note to this, The Gold Dollar valued integrity and affordability/accessibility, and unfortunately these "vault" releases are lacking in these characteristics... Hopefully if/when something comes out again it will be more in line with this philosophy, and a little less "corporate." On another aside note, there are some great performances recorded... and I hope they are someday heard!

7) Enjoy the music - however it found its way to you! This is of course more important to me than all the silly business crap that's going on behind the scenes...


-Neil

Your turntable's not dead... and greed still rules the record industry...



And if anyone wants to make a contribution for my mixdowns - or included calendar/graphics and such, feel free... Maybe TMR could make a little "donation?" Rather odd having this option here, but then why not! I did not make money running the bar - and had a full-time job most of the time... but made sure that employees and performers were treated and paid well. Seems odd that people I helped would choose to steal my work and not share the profits - or even get me an early pressing of the record that I created. Ah well... Different priorities I suppose.

http://www.golddollar.com/whitestripes/index.html

[Kali Durga]

Hasn't this already been discussed here?

[chaptertwentyone]

Hasn't this already been discussed here?

+1

[Kali Durga]

It popped up in the Little Room yesterday or the day before, too. Wonder why it's been unearthed again.

[mojoryan]

I must've missed it the first time, so I'm happy to see it.

[Kali Durga]

Just out of curiosity, Ryan, what about it makes you happy?

[NotACollector]

I looked in The Vault section, TMR Records and Merch section, TMR General Discussion, White Stripes Records and Merch, and one other location where I would expect to find this info and did not see a single thing about it. So where did I fail to look?

[Kali Durga]

I dunno. It just seems very familiar, I could swear I remember people talking about it around the time that Vault package was announced.

[woodisgood]

Never saw this either.

I'm not happy to see it. But I do feel spiritually richer from reading the post.

[Jettkoral]

Damn...TMR needs to give Neil some money! Not to mention they could have used the original tapes!

[mojoryan]

Never saw this either.

I'm not happy to see it. But I do feel spiritually richer from reading the post.

Thanks for eloquent clarification of my feelings, exactly, John.

[rsimms3]

This exact discussion has not been made here on Swirl to my knowledge. There was a video on YouTube for quite some time prior to the Vault release that had either this recording or another very early recording that was pulled just after Vault 13 was announced.

[Kali Durga]

Weird. I must be thinking of some other situation in which TMR's ethics were questioned, then.

[Jettkoral]

Weird. I must be thinking of some other situation in which TMR's ethics were questioned, then.

Paramount was a big one, I remember. (Who owns the recordings, etc)

[Kali Durga]

Funny seeing him act surprised in the film, and calling it a bootleg, since he had requested that I make the recording, and I had given the cassette copy directly to him...

That's the part that I swear sounds most familiar, along with the bit about Jack upholstering a chair for him as payment. But don't mind me, I'm just gonna wander over into the corner and continue my Alzheimer's moment all by myself.