Single: The Upholsterers

[chrono_1980]

Anyone sent in their info yet? I have #123... just seein if this database is gonna start or not???

[Grimtale]

Not knocking the thread or those who started it but I'll throw out my personal opinion. These sorts of public registration might do more good for counterfeiters than they do for collectors. If I was out to counterfeit one of these, I'd find a list like this, find one no one owns and use that #. Less chance of having someone pop up and call you out for your fake, or if you are trying to sell it, less likely a potential buyer will look it up and see the owner doesn't match the seller....

I have an example to prove my case. Mr. Clarkson did this earlier this year when he assumed no one knew the whereabouts or existence of HP LB #6 and so he made a fake #6. It wasn't until Blackwell posted a pic of the back of #6 that everyone knew he was lying and it was a fake. With a published list like this, he might have picked a different # and we might still be wondering if it was real...

One more thing to consider is these things change hands a lot it seems and so keeping a list accurate is probably not all that easy.

So after saying all that, I wonder if whatever good could come from this is worth the downsides.

Name a few good points to a list like this and prove me wrong... I have been trying to think of some advantages and can't come up with many.

-Grim

[achouza]

agreed you have good points,, a public list with pictures could definitely be a good source for counterfeiters,, maybe having up close pictures of the the front and backs would be counter productive,,

however I dont think that listing the numbers of "claimed" blood cards would hurt,, yes a counterfeiter might use a number that is not taken up,, but how is that different than now that they can literally pick any number from 1 to 133 and nobody will prove them wrong,,,

I do think that it would be helpful to build this collection of images (atleast internally here at swirl) and have some sort of idea of there being distinctive factors of a real vs fake,, it would allow us to see what % of blood cards have thick vs thin blood lines,, also it would allow us to see if there is a common font type on the back,, two things we just speculate until we see more than a few blood cards,,

as of now I have only received one blood card email with stats,,, feel free to keep sending them in, if you guys arent up for this thats cool as well,,

in conclusion, until we decide otherwise we will NOT be posting close up pictures of the front and back,, maybe just the owners name and the number,,, if we see a clear distinction between what could be fake and what isnt fake, then we could have an email on our owners list where people send pictures of the blood card being sold to them and we say whether it matches the characteristics of the other blood cards,, its complicated but I guess its better than nothing,, i feel its our responsibility to keep some poor sap from losing 600 bucks on a fake,,

afterall the whole point is to prevent counterfeiters since this item is getting expensive and currently nobody has anyway to tell what is real or not,, and nothing pisses me off than counterfeiters so anything we can do to fuck them is good with me,,

what do you guys think?

[chrono_1980]

I think you both make good arguements. The list of LB hand painted was a nice way to know who within the community has them. So, we can at least help each other out in the same way by posting the list in here (without pics) - so if one does pop up, and someone wants it, we can help that person out.

My 2 cents.

[icdvet]

I'm with Grim on this. I would like to know whether there is any significance to the thin vs. thick "blood" lines but maybe we could just get Mr. Blackwell to weigh in on this instead?

[dylnfan]

I do think that it would be helpful to build this collection of images (atleast internally here at swirl) and have some sort of idea of there being distinctive factors of a real vs fake

Grim's got a great point about just facilitating the production of fakes by making a "list" available to everyone and their brother. Having said that, writing up a "tip-sheet" to help collectors identify real v. fake pieces makes good sense. Just not sure what the best means to accomplish this would be? I saw folks mention something about "Love Buzz," how did that registration work?

[achouza]

yeah if we can get ben to chime in on that blood line issue that would be cool,, thats probably the bigger issue than the font on the back,, if we get that sorted id be content to just offer that guidance to people looking to buy,,,

as for love buzz,, theres two sites, two real vs fake guides and two owners lists:
http://www.sliver.it/nirvana/test/pages ... _buzz.html
http://www.sliver.it/nirvana/test/pages ... _list.html
http://www.livenirvana.com/digitalnirva ... zz_rc.html
http://www.livenirvana.com/digitalnirva ... _buzz.html

so i just bought a love buzz last week and the only reason i went ahead and bought it is since it matched up with data from both real vs fake lists AND that specific number was listed on both owners lists and had the specific items history that made sense,,, so for me it was helpful,, but i can see how owners lists and certain data could be bad,,,

[stoutr]

The biggest problem with this single is that an insert makes a version worth $500+ more than one without. Especially troubling is that nobody has stated for a fact how exactly the blood was done. Also, yellow Jack cards are also floating around and being sold on ebay. Glad I know my copies provenance. It is in the permanent collection (along with a black Jack card version).

[higherlimits]

The thing for me is that more often than not real blood cards are being called fake. There is absolutely no proof that there has ever been a fake blood card. A list of owners with pictures etc. would help educate those looking to buy a blood card as it would let them know what they are supposed to look like and what numbers exist. I guess the dream would be to get all 133 documented and then it's pretty easy to tell if a duplicate comes up. Plus, if someone tries to sell a fake and uses a different number than is on the list that's no different than now when you have a decent list of what's out there from popsike and could just use a different number.

I just think that if someone is going to fake it they're going to fake it, having a list or not does not really change that fact.

[icdvet]

So without opening up the can of worms again, I want to make sure mine is (probably) real:
The card has thick red nail polish running from the tip of the nail to cover the phone #
It is numbered "110 OF 133 BLOOD" written on the back upper left corner (not "blood") and III on the lower right corner.
The card is golden yellow, on thick paper (with no ink visible from the back) and exactly the same size as Brian Muldoon's green business card, both of which are slightly bigger and more textured than the slightly thinner black and white furniture slip (klomp tag?).
Can't remember who I got it from but I think it was via feebay from someone on the swirl so that I could be relatively confident it was real. Apologies to that seller for checking up on them, but I have become paranoid given the recent posts!
Sorry that I am too technically challenged to take pics.
Thoughts from the experts? Anyone else have the same number?
I would hate to find out it is fake.

[colditz]

icdvet - I would remove the details from your post, to avoid fakers picking up on them.

However, the details you give make it sound more like a genuine article than a fake one.

I'm with whoever mentioned the register of just the issue numbers - sounds like a great idea to me & doesn't give intricate details away.

[Kaber]

Anyone who already owns one of these is likely to say MINE IS LEGIT
but short of getting them all in a (virtual) room how can you prove it?
Are they really worth the extra cashola?

[Bikedo]

Solution might be to see if Ben would be willing to authenticate all the Upholsterers blood cards that you guys have.
Assuming Ben wants to help out, send him some high res. pictures/scans and let him be the judge.
If it's a real one add it to a list with maybe just the owners name and the specific number you have.

[icdvet]

Solution might be to see if Ben would be willing to authenticate all the Upholsterers blood cards that you guys have.
Assuming Ben wants to help out, send him some high res. pictures/scans and let him be the judge.
If it's a real one add it to a list with maybe just the owners name and the specific number you have.

Of course I am paranoid. After all, I finished with my woman 'cause she couldn't help me with my mind. And people think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time.

I am happy to delete details of my post from yesterday if there are no other opinions to be had from the experts here. I agree that we might be going around in circles. Nevertheless, I am still not convinced that fakers would do anything more that add a "blood card" to a real copy with all the inserts to produce this but even for a couple of hunderd bucks I don't see who would risk the associated jail time. But perhaps I am naive as well as paranoid.

[Acidman68]

Couple of questions 1,the original blood card there are two yes one with the fake blood and one without ?
2,how to tell if a test pressing of this single is fake